NRO EC Meeting Minutes: March 2017

Minutes of the NRO EC face-to-face meeting
Thursday 16 March 2017 at 9:00 AM Copenhagen Denmark Time

Executive Council:

John Curran (JC) ARIN Chair
Paul Wilson (PW) APNIC Secretary
Alan Barrett (AB) AFRINIC Treasurer
Axel Pawlik (AP) RIPE NCC
Oscar Robles (OR) LACNIC


Sunday Folayan (SF) AFRINIC
Nate Davis (ND) ARIN
Hollis Kara (HK) ARIN
John Sweeting (JS) ARIN remotely
Mark Koster (MK) ARIN remotely
Pablo Hinojosa (PH) APNIC remotely
Kenny Huang (KH) APNIC remotely
Ernesto Majo (EM) LACNIC
Rafael Ibarra (RI) LACNIC
Athina Fragkoulli (AF) RIPE NCC
Paul Rendek (PR) RIPE NCC


German Valdez (GV) NRO
Bhadrika Magan (MG) APNIC


0.- Welcome
1.- Agenda Review
a) ICANN Empowered Community
b) IANA Trust Domain Name License Agreements
c) CCWG Accountability S2
d) gTLD Auctions Proceedings
e) Other relevant committees/groups?
3.- IANA Review Committee Update
4.- ASO
a) ASO Review Update
b) ASO AC Operational Procedures
c) ASO AC Attendance Reporting
d) ASO Chair participation in NRO EC meetings
5.- Nick Ashton-Hart Engagement
6.- 2016 NRO Distribution Costs
7.- NRO Join Statistics
8.- whowas and historical RDAP
9.- CCG f2f Meeting Report
a) NRO website revamp
b) DNSSEC KSK rollover
c) IPv6 activities
d) 2017 IGF preparation
10.- RSCG f2f Meeting Report
a) ITHI Update
11.- ECG f2f Meeting Report
12. Open Actions Review
13. Minutes Review – February 2017 Meeting
14. Coming NRO EC meetings
a) March 21st
b) April 18th
c) Next NRO EC f2f Meeting
15.- AOB
16.- Adjourn


0. Welcome

JC welcomed everyone to the meeting. The attendees proceeded to introduce themselves.

1. Agenda Review

No changes to the agenda.


a) ICANN Empowered Community

JC explained the new community powers related to the ASO, JC said that there will be some fundamental changes to the bylaws, and these powers will need to be defined. JC said that the ASO AC will need guidance on how to engage the community and the NRO

EC will need to define new procedures in the relationship with IANA.

JC said that It creates some obligations on the NRO to participate. JC raised some questions on how do we tell our community? who can ask us to initiate a petition? It’s not clear what level of entry control we can do. For IANA changes, is the scope of the ASO AC relevant?

PW mentioned the ASO review might have an impact on these procedures; so, it might make sense to wait until the review is over. The question is how much do we do before the review? Do we need to do the minimum?

JC noted that right now, our community members have these powers. JC thinks that we might need to do an initial cut, but he is mindful of the review.

JC noted that after the 21-day period, the EC and AC will only have 7 days to decide on whether to support a petition, the ASO representative will need to sign a petition because some of these powers are non-recoverable.

JC proposed a small working group to develop an initial cut. We need to decide how open the entire process should be

AF said that the legal team is aware of this and can start working on this right away. One thing she brought up is the confusion between the NRO EC and ASO AC? The perception, is the ASO AC is the community. We have used in the past this distinction. We need a good narrative there.

JC agrees there is confusion that as part of the ASO review, we will get some advice on how to solve this. But if you look at the MoU – “The NRO shall fulfill the role of the ASO as defined in the ICANN bylaws; so, the two bodies are identical.” The question is how to do the narrative to that.

JC suggests the legal team craft the procedures; but it probably doesn’t solve the narrative problem.

PW said that the ambiguity is increased; as we have changed.

AF pointed out that the task of electing board members; and other reps to other various ICANN bodies, the new powers complicate these as they go very much further than the current MoU defines.

OR suggested a very simple procedure to address the timelines. OR agreed on waiting on the ASO review to finish; and ask the legal team to do a very simple set of interim procedures.

PR suggested to include RIR external relations/communication staff as observers in the WG.

JC agreed

Agreement: NRO tasks the legal team and ER and Communications observers to draft interim procedures for these community powers.

New Action Item 170316-01: Legal Team to draft an interim as simple as possible procedures, for the ASO community powers.

b) IANA Trust Domain Name License Agreements

JC asked by IANA trust whether license agreement can have minor changes; JC said that questions for were sent to the ISOC legal team for clarification.

AF noted that there were questions to introduce obligations to parties who were nor party to the agreement.

Agreement: Waiting on ISOC legal team to give us their comments on IANA Trust Domain Name License Agreements before present the NRO position.

c) CCWG Accountability S2

JC Was confused regarding whether the EC should take a position on some of the activities?

PW reminded that the ASO representatives are having a lightweight approach in the WG.

PW said that if that has changed and we are finding that there needs to be more ASO involvement, we might need to reconsider that.

AF said that the NRO might need to reiterate the ASO AC’s position.

JC agreed there needs to be more communication and clarity.

ICANN bylaws were brought up on screen.

JC discussed what the definition of “other related tasks” are? What have the RIRs agreed to do with ICANN? – ITHI, empowered communities, stakeholder calls, monitor several groups, etc.

PW suggested that If we decide to participate in these activities, it probably should be published on the NRO website.

AB and JC agreed to have some of these agreements documented somewhere.

PW reminded that the ASO representatives are observers in the CCWG WS2 by default, and only present an NRO position if it comes from the NRO.

AF suggested to have a reconfirmation of this to the ASO representatives in the CCWG WS2.

AF gave an update on the work of the CCWG WS 2.

New Action Item 170316-02: JC to draft a message to CCWG S2 representatives clarifying the engagement with this group (observers by default, no position unless instructed by the NRO EC)

New Action Item170316-03: NRO Secretariat. To create a list of liaisons we have appointed to any ICANN activities and publish it on the NRO website.

d) gTLD Auctions Proceedings WG

PW explained about the gTLD auction proceedings phases:
Stage 1 – drafting team produced a charter for scope of the stage 2 of the CCWG.
Stage 2 – CCWG is designing process by which funds will be distributed (mid-2018)
Stage 3 – action process of distributing funds

PW clarified that those who declare their conflicts are fully entitled to participate in the group. PW said that he is mention this for transparency as she is also part of the RIR staff in the WG.

PW suggested that the NRO keep monitoring the WG as there is big questions like if ICANN should have access to these funds.

PW added that current participates might not be part of the stage 3.

e) Other relevant committees/groups?

JC noted that some activities during ICANN meeting don’t align with the NRO mission so he did not attend.

GV said that he ASO AC have expressed interest to meet with other SOs/ACs and this requires close coordination with the NRO EC to make sure this is within scope.

OR said that ICANN 59 is a good opportunity for the ASO AC to present on their role as ICANN 59 is predominantly about policy.

JC suggested to have more efficiency in how we do the NRO and ASO updates. JC suggested to consider this as part of the ASO review outcomes.

Agreement: NRO EC to discuss content of presentations after the ASO review to ensure if covers topics within scope.

3. IANA Review Committee Update

ND reported that the IANA RC charter and internal processes were generally agreed. ND added that issues of the operational and advisory roles of committees were the point of discussions including what type of information should be provided to the review committee and community consultation.

ND said that the IANA RC discussed about reporting outside of the annual report on a case by case basis and the next step would be to match the reporting against the SLA.

PW commented that the reporting requirement is at least annually and more often if advised by the NRO EC; date of first report still needs to be decided.

AB said that community consultation should be according to the IANA RC charter.

OR and AP noted that any regional consultation, should be very simple.

JC agreed.

ND suggested that the IANA RC should provide a report for 2017.

JC clarified that it is one calendar year, but he thinks the NRO EC should give the RC clarity on this.

New Action Item 170316-04: NRO EC (JC) to clarify with IANA RC that according to IANA RC charrer community consultation is only for the final report.

New Action Item 170316-05: NRO EC (JC) to direct RC to provide its report on 15 months of IANA service; for period time 1 October 2016 to 31 December 2017, and give it to the NRO EC in the first half of 2018.

4. ASO

a) ASO Review Update

PW suggested that the NRO EC publishes its own response to the questionnaire, while the review is on its way.

JC asked on the level of signoff the response would have.

PW said that it was a critical thing, if we wanted to collectively respond, we need to find the common denominator.

New Action Item 170316-06: PW to draft a NRO response to ITEMS consultation process for the EC to review and comment.

GV reported that the contract has been signed; and first payment conveyed. GV reminded that according to the contract they must deliver a monthly report.

b) ASO AC Operational Procedures

JC reminded that OR and AB sent comments to the ASO AC operational procedures

Draft procedures were put on the screen.

NRO EC went through the changes from OR and AB.

JC asked if the NRO EC can we approve this document as it is now?

OR said that his changes were more editorial and suggestions for the ASO to review later. He is happy for the document to be approved.

JC suggested the EC approves the new procedures, with a note of the comments.

AB preferred to state that it will be approved after the changes are made. “approve it with this list”

JC moved that the EC approves the procedures, subject to the incorporation of these changes.

No objections.

Agreement: NRO EC approves the new ASO AC procedures subject to the acceptance of NRO EC recommendations.

New Action Item 170316-07: GV send back ASO AC procedures with approval on condition of accepting NRO EC suggested changes first.

c) ASO AC Attendance Reporting

JC said that there are regular difficulties on getting quorum.

GV showed the participation stats available on the ASO website.

AB suggested to add the current year participation stats displayed in the yearly participation table.

JC suggested that when there is an ASO AC meeting report, they include the recent attendance stats.

AB suggested adding to the table “sent apologies”.

New Action Item 170316-08: GV to amend ASOAC participation table in the ASO website to include 2017 attendance record, meeting attendance/meeting eligible, apologies records.

New Action Item 170316-09: JC to send a message to the ASO AC to include ASO AC attendance meeting records in their presentation reports.

d) ASO Chair participation in NRO EC meetings

JC said that he was generally in favour of inviting ASO AC chair to the NRO EC meetings.

JC suggested to deferring it after the ASO AC review.

PW agreed. PW added that the ASO AC Chair can be invited for specific topics. PW clarified that this was the original intention of the suggestion.

PW suggested to let the ASO AC chair that as a default, the NRO EC will invite the Chair if there is a need.

New Action Item 170316-10: JC to inform Filiz Yilmaz that participation in NRO EC meetings will be subject for the discussion of agreed specific topics.

5. Nick Ashton-Hart (NAH) Engagement

PW reported on NAH activities in ITU meetings in Geneva. PW reminded that NAH would only advocate in anything in the name of the NRO only with the express permission of the NRO

PR agreed that NAH participation in Geneva is valuable.

OR agreed on re-emphasize how the EC will engage with NAH and how he will conduct his activities in Geneva.

PW confirmed that APNIC is in contact with him.

New Action Item 170316-11: PW to contact NAH and re-emphasize the agreement with the NRO regarding his representation in Geneva meetings.

6. NRO Join Statistics

AP reminded that RIPE NCC took on the work of producing the NRO global stats.

PW Believes there is confusion about the what and when. PW suggested to have a formal agreement that RIPE NCC is managing this work. PW believes this should go into production; but it will needs to be a collective decision.

JC suggested to have a copy of the joint stats file, agree on the format and publish it.

New Action Item 170316-12: RSM Chair (JS) to get a document to the NRO EC for agreement on NRO global stats format and publish it.

7. whowas and historical RDAP

PW reported on whowas project in APNIC. PW said that APNIC started working on this more over the past year. It involves an RDAP extension to produce a group of records and authoritative account of historical state of the whois. PW said that APNIC still has to examine in detail the “right to be forgotten”.

PR noted that in the EU there is very strong data protection laws – especially holding onto historical data. So there are certain things we have to take these things into consideration and documented carefully.

JC said that ARIN records are within the scope of business information so he doesn’t anticipate there being issues with publishing historical data.

OR said that LACNIC is considering this. OR said that Mexico has some strict privacy laws to be aware of.

8. 2016 NRO Distribution Costs

GV discussed the NRO distribution costs. GV stated that there is a minimum variation in the distribution costs compared with previous year. GV considered that the NRO distribution formula remain valid.

PW asked to add to AOB, IGF support for future.

JC moves to continue to use distribution formula. Seconded by PW.

Agreement: NRO EC approves the 2016 Distribution Formula and distribution of expenses.

9.- CCG f2f Meeting Report

HK reported on the CCG face to face meeting in Copenhagen a couple of days before.

a) NRO website revamp

HK briefed about the NRO website revamp project. HK requested an increase of the NRO budget for 2000 USD to cover the projects

AB suggested to make sure the URLs remain accessible after the revamp.

JC moved to increase NRO budget for 2000 USD to be used in the NRO website revamp project.

All agreed.

Agreement: NRO EC approves to increase NRO budget for 2000 USD for the use of the NRO website revamp project.

b) DNSSEC KSK rollover

PW said that the project utilizes resources from ICANN and funneling out to our communities. PW suggested to engage in coordination with ICANN through the CCG. PW added that APNIC would undertake to translate some of the key materials into our regional languages.

JC asked the NRO EC to work with ICANN to outreach in our own communities; All agreed.

Agreement: NRO EC approves to collaborate with ICANN in the DNSSEC KSK rollover activities (to be included in the list of activities with ICANN)

c) IPv6 activities

PW asked if there were any plans for IPv6 promotion for the 6/6/2016.

HK reported that the CCG discussed the topic. HK suggested that the CCG could work to update IPv6 content based on regional input and focus on 5-year anniversary of the World IPv6 launch. HK added that the CCG agreed to work in a promotional video for this event.

All agreed.

New Action Item 170316-13: CCG in advance of 6/6/2016 activities to update IPv6 content based on regional input and coordinate a RIR promotional video.

d) 2017 IGF preparation

HK suggested keeping focus on the RIRs rather than NRO, keeping current documentation and the booth. HK said that the CCG agreed bringing back the barista to the booth. HK said that staffing for the event could rely more in the local and RIR Secretariat and coordinate the level of engagement focusing on newcomers.

PW would be happy with CCG recommendation.

Agreement: CCG and Secretariat to lead preparations for RIR participation in 2017 IGF

Agreement: NRO EC to review collaboration with ISOC so all joint activities are equally portrayed.

10. RSCG f2f Meeting Report

JS reported on RSCG face to face meeting including: ITHI presentation; 2017 work plan; inter-RIR transfer disputes, which were under legal review.

PW asked if the legal team have been given direction as to what type of solution they are looking for reverse transfers? PW asked if the legal team can work to find out what the options are for people who are being aggrieved?

JS stated that the legal team are looking at wide aspects, what is viable, what can be done considering timing.

JS said that current inter RIR transfer platform and processes are working very well given the volume managed now.

Regarding live transfers, JC asked to ensure that the expectations of the service be well documented.

JS said that the RSCG and ECG are working in a joint meeting around ARIN fall meeting in San Jose. JS added that in relation with collaboration with ECG they are working in RPKI metrics and who will own the project.

JS said that the RIR have exchanged a lot of information and documenting regional practices regarding whois accuracy.

JS informed that next RSCG teleconference would be April 11th.

JS clarified that the discussion included policy discussion from the RIRS, JS will resend this document out to the EC list; next call 11 April; looking at updating the NRO stats information and formatting.

a) ITHI Update

JC briefed about his presentation on ITHI during ICANN meeting. JC suggested to keep the metrics at high-level.

PW suggested to include all numbers internet resources in the health indicators including legacy address space.

JC briefed JS on the results of the NRO joint stats discussions. JC confirmed that the NRO EC wants a single format for extended delegation stats and the stats collected be reported.

Agreement: the NRO EC agrees in including legacy resources as part of the health indicator metrics.

11. ECG f2f Meeting Report

MK presented an executive summary of the ECG face to face meeting:
• Survey of each RIR’s engineering activities planned for 2017
• Clean up some inconsistencies with the Extended Stats file with better documentation
• Dealt with some operational details on the transfer log format – due out at the end of Q2 per RIR
• Discussion of RDAP inconsistencies on handling navigation of reverse dealing with referrals
• Discussion of IETF and ICANN working groups
• Discussion of writing up helpful hints on inter-rir transfers to reduce downtime when resources transferred
• DDOS mitigation handling – rate limiting per IP is having little use. People are using services like Amazon EC3 to spin up 100’s of VM’s to query RIR’s for data. Good example of this is located at
• IRR Summary for movement of IRR data from RIPE to AFRINIC
• Summary of historical whois using RDAP by APNIC
Validation Reconsidered draft – trying to allow for a longer transition period so that ARIN resource holders can move their ROA’s over time instead of having a flag day. Other RIR’s don’t have this problem as they can resign ROA’s for their own customers
• 0/0 – a checkpoint on the applicability statement draft that was not accepted in the SIDR WG. Also we talked about our previous agreement to have 0/0 out by end of Q3 of 2017 but there are doubts within the EC.

JC asked when was the ETA from the RIRs on 0/0.

PW said that since then the NRO has decided that we will proceed; he will convey that to his team.

JC said that the NRO should proceed with 0/0 RPKI implementation.

New Action Item 170316-14: EC members, to work with teams to get 0/0 deployment date and report back to the NRO EC

12. Open Actions Review

Action Item 170221-01: GV to coordinate the signature of the contract of the ASO Review between ITEMS International and the NRO.

Done. Action CLOSED.

Action Item 170221-02 GV to pass to ITEMS all NRO EC feedback regarding the questionnaire for the ASO Review.

Done. Action CLOSED.

Action Item 20170221-03 JC to draft a response to ICANN CEO regarding how to work together going forward as PTI customers. JC to share the draft in the NRO EC list for comments before submitting it to ICANN.

Action OPEN

Action Item 20170221-04. MK to send in time for the next NRO EC meeting (March 16th) the report of the ECG meeting in Mauritius.

Done. Action CLOSED.

Action Item 170221-05 GV to publish the NRO EC letter to Larry Strickling in the archived document section of the NRO website.

Done. Action CLOSED.

Action Item 170221-06. NRO EC. Based on Elise’s email regarding the IANA communications on special allocation to the IETF, the NRO EC to agree in a response to Elise Gerich.

Action OPEN.

ND said that he met briefly with EG. ND said that EG and her staff are pushing on reporting on special allocations. What they want to do is align their report to what is reported in the SLA.

JC said that the NRO EC wants to make sure that the EG is not asked to provide information out of scope.

New Action Item 170316-15: ND to convey to Elise Gerich to share information on special allocation to IETF in the joint coordinated mailing list.

Action Item 161027-01 AF in coordination with RIR staff to create a matrix document with the accountability questions that should have a procedure to comply with ASO powers and duties in ICANN.

Done. Action CLOSED.

Action Item 161027-07 CM (or ECG Chair) to collaborate with the RSCG in the establishment of a set of RPKI adoption matrix for the use of regular reporting.

Action OPEN.

Action Item 141018-03: AF and RIR Legal Team to include Governing Board Structure, Budget and Activity Approval, Fee Approval and Bylaw/Operational Document Control information to the RIR Governance Matrix.

Done. Action CLOSED.

Action Item 141018-04: AF and RIR Legal team based on the RIR Governance Matrix propose to the NRO EC those areas where could be consolidation or harmonization among the RIR.

Action OPEN.

13. Minutes Review – February 2017 Meeting

JC asked the NRO EC to review minutes this week.

14. Coming NRO EC meetings

a) March 21st

JC proposed to take this off the list.

All agreed.

b) April 18th

AP said that he might have conflict with the day.

NRO EC agree to keep the date.

c) Next NRO EC f2f Meeting

AP invited the NRO EC to meet after RIPE NCC meeting in Dubai. AP pointed out that the RIPE meeting ends just before the start of ICANN 60 in Abu Dhabi

GV said that RIPE meeting in Dubai will be a good time to discuss the implementation of the results of the ASO review.

Agreement: The NRO EC agrees to meet tentatively on 27 October 2017 un Dubai.

15. AOB

a) Document management

JC suggested having an internal document store for future reference. Perhaps a wiki?

AP said that RIPE NCC could host the service.

New Action Item 170316-16 GV to investigate an NRO EC wiki for document management with RIPE NCC

b) IGF contribution

AB reminded that there is an approved budget of 100,000 USD for IGF contribution in 2017. AB said that the NRO EC has not agreed how to make the distribution.

GV reminded that last year the distribution was 75,000 USD for IGF Secretariat and 25,000 USD for IGFSA.

PR pointed out about the possible negative perception of taking money from one party to the other.

AB and PW agreed in increasing the total contribution.

AP suggested increasing the IGF contribution in the NRO budget in 25,000 USD

JC moved contributing to IGFSA for 50,000 USD and 75,000 USD for IGF Secretariat.

All agreed.

Agreement: The NRO EC agrees in contribute 75,000 USD for IGF secretariat and 50,000 to the IGFSA, an increase of 25,000 of the NRO budget

Agreement: CCG focus in the increase of 25,000 USD in the communication of the IGF contribution.

c) NRO officers

JC asked to the NRO EC to think about the creation of a NRO vice chair role.

OR said a that a NRO vice-chair could be from the region where the event is localized.

JC suggested to include the topic in the next NRO EC teleconference.

New Action Item 170316-17 GV to include in the NRO EC April teleconference the topic of a NRO vice-chair role.

16. Adjourn

PW motioned to adjourn. All agreed.

Meeting ended at 14:30 (UTC+1).

Last modified on 31/07/2018