[CRISP-TEAM] CRISP mailing list

Thu Dec 11 15:15:39 CET 2014

I feel strongly that the archives should be open.

On 12/11/14, 7:20 AM, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com> wrote:

>Thank you Izumi,
>
>I would second Nurani's comments "Within our own RIR policy making
>process, it is quite normal and common, that a small group of people
>draft text that is then presented to the whole community for feedback.
>So in my view, that way of working is quite in line with our basic
>principles of decision making."
>
>Although I don't see the harm of having publicly accessible read-only
>archives.
>______________________
>Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>
>"There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk
>on higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
>
>
>
>On 11 December 2014 at 12:48, Izumi Okutani <izumi at nic.ad.jp> wrote:
>> Thanks for your input Mwendwa.
>>
>>> If closing the crisp at nro.net will raise transparency issues,
>>
>> So far, I have't observed comments on this list that closing
>>crisp at nro.net
>> will raise transparency issues.
>>
>> (I wasn't sure from your comment whether you have issues or, you are
>>making
>> a suggestion in case there are issues)
>>
>> I note Adres and Alan expressed they are OK to have public read-only
>> archives -  I haven't, however, heard concerns about transparencies from
>> them at this stage, given we will share key information on
>>ianaxfer at nro.net
>> as described above.
>>
>> My current preference is that, *if* there are no clear concerns on
>> transparency issues being/to be expressed, I'd like to tolerate the
>>concerns
>> expressed about making the archives public.
>>
>> At the same time, I think it would be helpful if Nurani (and perhaps
>>Andrei)
>> would be able to share, what are the kind of confusions you would be
>> concerned about, given that the archives would be read-only and posting
>>to
>> be limited to CRISP Team members.
>>
>> I'll share my interpretation about mailing lists and transparency in a
>> seperate mail.
>>
>>
>> Izumi
>>
>>
>>
>> (2014/12/11 16:21), Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:
>>>
>>> If closing the crisp at nro.net will raise transparency issues, then we
>>> should
>>> open it to read-only and have all archives publicly accessible.
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>>>
>>>
>>> "There are some men who lift the age they inhabit, till all men walk on
>>> higher ground in that lifetime." - Maxwell Anderson
>>>
>>> On 11 December 2014 at 07:08, Izumi Okutani <izumi at nic.ad.jp> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Andres and all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Thanks for the consideration. I do not have a strong position, just
>>>>>
>>>>> wanted that we can discuss more about the rationale behind this
>>>>> desition.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Indeed it is helpul you raised this point. I also think it's
>>>>important we
>>>> have clear rationale we can explain to our communities. Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Understood you don't have a strong position.
>>>>
>>>>   I totally understand Andrei������������������s and
>>>> Nurani������������������s point of view and
>>>>>
>>>>> would be
>>>>> comfortable with providing information to the Communitu at the global
>>>>>
>>>> list.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be OK with this procedure.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> OK. Thanks for sharing your input.
>>>>
>>>> I saw Allan's post that :
>>>>
>>>>   - He's OK to keep the archives of crisp at nro.net to be open (read
>>>>only)
>>>>   - If we keep it closed, we should share key information on the
>>>>global
>>>>     list, such as our plan to post minutes of meetings, notices of
>>>>     meetings, and draft documents on the global list
>>>>(ianaxfer at nro.net)
>>>>
>>>> I agree with sharing key information to the global list, and infact,
>>>>this
>>>> is something we already do for meeting plans and minutes.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we can work with closed archive for crisp at nro.net and keep
>>>> transparency & community engagement at the same time, if we work this
>>>> way.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone else feels differently? If so, it helps if you could raise it
>>>>on
>>>> the list before the coming teleconference, as much as possible.
>>>>
>>>> I'll do a quick confirmation at the teleconferene today (11 Dec) to
>>>>make
>>>> sure everyone is comfortable.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Izumi
>>>>
>>>> (2014/12/11 1:09), Andres wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Izumi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the consideration. I do not have a strong position, just
>>>>> wanted that we can discuss more about the rationale behind this
>>>>> desition.
>>>>>
>>>>> I totally understand Andrei������������������s and
>>>>> Nurani������������������s point of view and
>>>>> would be
>>>>> comfortable with providing information to the Communitu at the global
>>>>> list.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be OK with this procedure.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andr������������������s
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> El 10/12/2014 a las 12:25 p.m., Izumi Okutani
>>>>>escribi������������������:
>>>>>
>>>>>   Thanks for raising this Andres. I think it's good to clarify.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understood Andrei's and Nurani's point as it's important we share
>>>>>> and engage with the communities once a draft proposal is ready but
>>>>>> sharing the working process at this stage may cause confusions,
>>>>>>while
>>>>>> it may not necessarily achieve openness desired .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andres, do you feel keeping the below option described by Nurani
>>>>>>could
>>>>>> help address your concern/intention, while keeping the archives of
>>>>>> crisp at nro.net closed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (But it is of course of utmost importance that we also engage with
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the community through the ianxfer list, as well as our own regional
>>>>>> communities.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Each CRIPS members are free to update the progress with their
>>>>>> communities as necessary ofcourse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's important that we all feel comfortable with community
>>>>>>engagement,
>>>>>> so certainly would like to hear if you/anyone else have concerns
>>>>>>about
>>>>>> this approach.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Izumi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (2014/12/10 21:14), Nurani Nimpuno wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 10 dec 2014, at 12:49, Andrei Robachevsky <robachevsky at isoc.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Hi Andr���������������������������s, all,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andres wrote on 10/12/14 12:21:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Germ���������������������������n,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A couple of questions for the rest of the colleagues:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is this list expected to be closed just for us leaving the
>>>>>>>>>IANAXFER
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> the global community? Are those your expectations?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is my expectation indeed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   I wonder if it would be better to open our list for observers
>>>>>>>>that
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> cannot post, just read. Would the rest of the CRISP team agree
>>>>>>>>>with
>>>>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd prefer to complete the necessary few iterations to produce the
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> coherent draft response here, within a small group on a closed
>>>>>>>> mailinglist and then bring it as soon as possible to the open
>>>>>>>> ianaxfer
>>>>>>>> where we can fully engage with the community, provide
>>>>>>>>justification
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> concrete points, incorporate feedback, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> IMO allowing observers to browse through public archives may
>>>>>>>>increase
>>>>>>>> confusion and doesn't really contribute to the openness of the
>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I fully agree with Andrei here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the very aggressive timeline, we need to be able to work
>>>>>>> efficiently in this group. Or we risk not meeting the set deadline.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (But it is of course of utmost importance that we also engage with
>>>>>>> the community through the ianxfer list, as well as our own regional
>>>>>>> communities.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>>>> Nurani
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Andr���������������������������s
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> El 10/12/2014 a las 04:01 a.m., German Valdez
>>>>>>>>> escribi���������������������������:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> By now you must have received a notification of your
>>>>>>>>>>subscription
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> CRISP-TEAM mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know if you'd like to add any alternative emails.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AFRINIC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> kivuva at transworldafrica.com
>>>>>>>>>> apb at cequrux.com
>>>>>>>>>> ernest at afrinic.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> APNIC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> izumi at nic.ad.jp
>>>>>>>>>> drgovind at nic.in
>>>>>>>>>> craig at apnic.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ARIN
>>>>>>>>>> john.sweeting at twcable.com
>>>>>>>>>> woody at pch.net
>>>>>>>>>> mabejuela at arin.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> LACNIC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> nico.scheper at cw.ams-ix.net
>>>>>>>>>> esteban at lescano-etcheverry.com.ar
>>>>>>>>>> andres at lacnic.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> nurani at netnod.se
>>>>>>>>>> robachevsky at isoc.org
>>>>>>>>>> rendek at ripe.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> NRO Secretariat
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> german at nro.net
>>>>>>>>>> secretariat at nro.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> CRISP mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> CRISP at nro.net
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> CRISP mailing list
>>>>>>>>> CRISP at nro.net
>>>>>>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> CRISP mailing list
>>>>>>>> CRISP at nro.net
>>>>>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> CRISP mailing list
>>>>>>> CRISP at nro.net
>>>>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> CRISP mailing list
>>>>>> CRISP at nro.net
>>>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> CRISP mailing list
>>>>> CRISP at nro.net
>>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/crisp
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
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