[CRISP-TEAM] CRISP mailing list
Nurani Nimpuno
nurani at netnod.se
Thu Dec 11 09:16:23 CET 2014
On 11 dec 2014, at 05:08, Izumi Okutani <izumi at nic.ad.jp> wrote:
> Dear Andres and all,
>
>
>> Thanks for the consideration. I do not have a strong position, just
>> wanted that we can discuss more about the rationale behind this desition.
>
> Indeed it is helpul you raised this point. I also think it's important we have clear rationale we can explain to our communities. Thank you.
>
> Understood you don't have a strong position.
>
>> I totally understand Andrei������s and Nurani������s point of view and would be
>> comfortable with providing information to the Communitu at the global
> list.
>>
>> I will be OK with this procedure.
>
> OK. Thanks for sharing your input.
>
> I saw Allan's post that :
>
> - He's OK to keep the archives of crisp at nro.net to be open (read only)
> - If we keep it closed, we should share key information on the global
> list, such as our plan to post minutes of meetings, notices of
> meetings, and draft documents on the global list (ianaxfer at nro.net)
>
> I agree with sharing key information to the global list, and infact, this is something we already do for meeting plans and minutes.
>
> Perhaps we can work with closed archive for crisp at nro.net and keep transparency & community engagement at the same time, if we work this way.
>
> Anyone else feels differently? If so, it helps if you could raise it on the list before the coming teleconference, as much as possible.
Thank you Izumi for your balanced and considered response.
I support this completely.
I understand that this is a sensitive topic, and that we need to manage community expectations and meet the important need for transparency.
We are all from RIR communities who pride themselves in working in a transparent, inclusive, bottom-up, consensus-based manner. So I think that we all understand that those principles should not be compromised. They are there for a reason.
I fully agree in that we need to engage with the community through the public list(s) and we certainly need to keep them informed and seek their feedback every step of the way.
I think it's important that minutes, agendas, notices of meetings, draft documents and any major decisions need to be made publicly available. On the iaxfer-list, on our respective regional lists, but also on the NRO website.
But we have an incredibly short timeline to do this important work. And I don't think it is practically possible to get that work done, in that short time, solely on a public list. I think we can all agree that the absolute worst outcome would be that we fail to deliver a sound proposal. So we need to look at how we can achieve that in the most efficient way, but without compromising on transparency.
I don't think we compromise on any of these principles, by making progress and getting work done in this small group, as long as we make sure to communicate with the community, and seek input on the work we've produced, each step of the way.
Within our own RIR policy making process, it is quite normal and common, that a small group of people draft text that is then presented to the whole community for feedback. So in my view, that way of working is quite in line with our basic principles of decision making.
I hope this clarifies my thinking on this.
Kind regards,
Nurani
>
> I'll do a quick confirmation at the teleconferene today (11 Dec) to make sure everyone is comfortable.
>
>
> Regards,
> Izumi
>
> (2014/12/11 1:09), Andres wrote:
>> Dear Izumi,
>>
>> Thanks for the consideration. I do not have a strong position, just
>> wanted that we can discuss more about the rationale behind this desition.
>>
>> I totally understand Andrei������s and Nurani������s point of view and would be
>> comfortable with providing information to the Communitu at the global list.
>>
>> I will be OK with this procedure.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Andr������s
>>
>>
>> El 10/12/2014 a las 12:25 p.m., Izumi Okutani escribi������:
>>> Thanks for raising this Andres. I think it's good to clarify.
>>>
>>> I understood Andrei's and Nurani's point as it's important we share
>>> and engage with the communities once a draft proposal is ready but
>>> sharing the working process at this stage may cause confusions, while
>>> it may not necessarily achieve openness desired .
>>>
>>> Andres, do you feel keeping the below option described by Nurani could
>>> help address your concern/intention, while keeping the archives of
>>> crisp at nro.net closed?
>>>
>>> > (But it is of course of utmost importance that we also engage with
>>> the community through the ianxfer list, as well as our own regional
>>> communities.)
>>>
>>> Each CRIPS members are free to update the progress with their
>>> communities as necessary ofcourse.
>>>
>>> It's important that we all feel comfortable with community engagement,
>>> so certainly would like to hear if you/anyone else have concerns about
>>> this approach.
>>>
>>> Izumi
>>>
>>> (2014/12/10 21:14), Nurani Nimpuno wrote:
>>>> Dear colleagues,
>>>>
>>>> On 10 dec 2014, at 12:49, Andrei Robachevsky <robachevsky at isoc.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Andr���������s, all,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andres wrote on 10/12/14 12:21:
>>>>>> Thanks Germ���������n,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A couple of questions for the rest of the colleagues:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is this list expected to be closed just for us leaving the IANAXFER
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> the global community? Are those your expectations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is my expectation indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if it would be better to open our list for observers that
>>>>>> cannot post, just read. Would the rest of the CRISP team agree with
>>>>>> that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd prefer to complete the necessary few iterations to produce the
>>>>> first
>>>>> coherent draft response here, within a small group on a closed
>>>>> mailinglist and then bring it as soon as possible to the open ianaxfer
>>>>> where we can fully engage with the community, provide justification for
>>>>> concrete points, incorporate feedback, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO allowing observers to browse through public archives may increase
>>>>> confusion and doesn't really contribute to the openness of the process.
>>>>
>>>> I fully agree with Andrei here.
>>>>
>>>> Given the very aggressive timeline, we need to be able to work
>>>> efficiently in this group. Or we risk not meeting the set deadline.
>>>>
>>>> (But it is of course of utmost importance that we also engage with
>>>> the community through the ianxfer list, as well as our own regional
>>>> communities.)
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Nurani
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrei
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andr���������s
>>>>>>
>>>>>> El 10/12/2014 a las 04:01 a.m., German Valdez escribi���������:
>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> By now you must have received a notification of your subscription to
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Please let me know if you'd like to add any alternative emails.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AFRINIC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> kivuva at transworldafrica.com
>>>>>>> apb at cequrux.com
>>>>>>> ernest at afrinic.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> APNIC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> izumi at nic.ad.jp
>>>>>>> drgovind at nic.in
>>>>>>> craig at apnic.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ARIN
>>>>>>> john.sweeting at twcable.com
>>>>>>> woody at pch.net
>>>>>>> mabejuela at arin.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LACNIC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nico.scheper at cw.ams-ix.net
>>>>>>> esteban at lescano-etcheverry.com.ar
>>>>>>> andres at lacnic.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> RIPE NCC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nurani at netnod.se
>>>>>>> robachevsky at isoc.org
>>>>>>> rendek at ripe.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NRO Secretariat
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> german at nro.net
>>>>>>> secretariat at nro.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> German
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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